核问题。应该说，双方的立场比过去更加接近了。最好还是继续北京六方会谈，各方通过相互尊重、平等互信、互相磋商，找到一个为各方所接受的和平解决朝鲜核问题的方案。
A: You must have also noticed that there has been some progress in the process of dialogue on the nuclear issue. The DPRK has stated that it does not seek to possess nuclear weapons and that denuclearization is its ultimate goal. And recently, it has also said that under the prerequisite that its security concerns are met and the United States abandons its hostile policy toward the DPRK, the DPRK is prepared to give up its nuclear program. The Bush administration has repeatedly said that the United States has no intention to invade or change the regime of the DPRK, and that it wants to resolve the nuclear issue through peaceful negotiations. So in my view, the positions of two sides are now closer than before. I think the best way is to continue with the Beijing six-party talks so that all parties concerned can sit together to have discussions on the basis of mutual respect, equality and mutual trust, and through such consultations they can, in the end, work out a solution that is acceptable to all parties concerned and that is helpful for the peaceful resolution of the nuclear issue.
Q: The Dalai Lama has declared that he is not seeking independence for Tibet. Do you foresee face-to-face meetings with the Dalai Lama and representatives of China?
唐：达赖喇嘛表示无意寻求西藏独立，中国政府代表是否会与达赖及其代表见面谈判？
温：遗憾的是，达赖喇嘛并没有真正放弃“藏独”立场，没有停止分裂祖国的活动，也没有承认台湾是中国领土不可分割的一部分。我们注意到他近期的一些言论，但还要察其言，观其行。只要达赖喇嘛真正放弃“藏独”的主张，承认西藏是中国领土不可分割的一部分，台湾是中国领土不可分割的一部分，我们就可以恢复同他的接触和商谈。中国同达赖喇嘛接触的大门是敞开的。
A: Regrettably, the Dalai Lama has not genuinely given up his position of Tibet independence and has not
given up the separatist activities aimed at splitting the motherland. He also has not recognized that Taiwan is an inalienable part of Chinese territory. We have taken note of the recent remarks by the Dalai Lama but we still need to watch very carefully what he really does. So long as he genuinely abandons his position on seeking Tibetan independence and publicly recognizes Tibet and Taiwan as inalienable parts of Chinese territory, then contacts and discussions between him and the central government can resume. The door to communication between the central government and the Dalai Lama is wide open.
Q: China's economic performance has been very rapid in recent years, creating a very strong Chinese economy, and great economic growth in a short period of time. Do you also believe political reform should be accelerated to keep pace with economic reform?
唐：中国的经济改革发展迅速，使得中国在短期内取得高速增长。中国的政治改革是否需要跟上经济改革的步伐？
温：从1978年开始的中国改革是全面的改革，不仅包括经济体制改革，而且包括政治体制改革。正如邓小平先生所说，没有政治体制改革作保证，经济体制改革不可能成功。我们进行的政治体制改革，从本质上说，是要把加强党的领导、依法治国和人民当家作主统一起来。当前最重要的是做好这样几件事： A: China embarked on the road to reform and opening up in 1978. Our reform is a comprehensive one which includes both economic and political restructuring. Precisely as Mr. Deng Xiaoping pointed out, without the guarantee of political reform, economic reform will not be successful. In essence, political restructuring in China aims at integrating the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party, rule of law in the conduct of public affairs and the people's role as masters of their own affairs. At present, it is particularly important to do a good job on the following.
第一，发展民主，保障人民的民主权利和人权。
First of all, we should develop democracy to safeguard people’s democratic rights and to respect and protect their human rights.
第二，完善法制，加强立法，依法行政，推进司法改革。
Secondly, we should improve on the legal system through better legislation, better administration according to law, and greater judicial reform.
第三，依法治国，使我们的社会主义民主政治法制化、规范化和程序化。使这种制度不因领导人的改变而改变，不因领导人的看法、注意力的改变而改变。
Thirdly, we should run the country according to law, making our socialist democracy more
institutionalized, standardized and proceduralized, and in this way we can make sure that it will not change because of changes in the leadership and changes in the views and focus of attention of leaders.
第四、加强监督，特别是人民对政府的监督。只有发扬民主，加强监督，政府才不敢懈怠，才不会人亡政息。我们是有13亿人的大国，推进政治体制改革必须有领导、有步骤地进行。
Fourth, we must strengthen supervision, and we should make sure that the government is placed under the supervision of the people. We have to develop democracy and strengthen supervision. Only in this way can we make sure the government will not relent in its efforts, and the situation whereby the policy fails when the leadership changes will not occur. China is a big country with 1.3 billion people. So to press ahead with political reform, it has to be done in an orderly and well-organized fashion.
现在有许多误解，比如宗教信仰问题。中国的宪法明确规定公民有宗教信仰自由，现在中国信教人数超过1亿人，宗教活动场所有10万多个。改革开放以来，大约每3天就新建或重建一处宗教活动场所。在中南海不远的地方，就有宗教活动场所，东有王府井的天主教堂，南有牛街的伊斯兰清真寺，北有佛教的雍和宫，西有道教的白云观。在中南海最近的地方，有历史较长的西什库教堂。你可以到这些地方看看，有很多宗教信徒在那里从事宗教活动。中国5000年的历史在宗教发展方面有很大的包容性。中国5大宗教中只有道教是本土产生的，其他4种宗教都是外面传来的，佛教是从印度传来的，基督教和天主教是从西方传来的，伊斯兰教是从中东、西亚传来的。
Now there exist many misunderstandings. For instance, with regard to freedom of religious belief, freedom of religious belief is actually written into China's constitution. China currently has over 100 million religious followers. China has over 100,000 religious sites. Since the beginning of reform and opening up, one religious site has been either newly built or restored every three days. You may just take a walk around the Zhongnanhai compound, and you can see many religious sites. For instance, the Wangfujing Catholic church to the east, the Niujie mosque of Islam to the south, the Yonghe Buddhist monastery to the north and the Baiyun Taoist temple to the west. Nearest to Zhongnanhai is the Xishiku church with a long history. You may visit these religious sites. You will see many people practicing their religious faith there. Over the past 5,000 years of Chinese history, China has been very tolerant toward the development of religion. Among the five major religions in China, only Taoism is an indigenous religious belief. The other four actually came from overseas. For instance, Buddhism came to China from India, Catholicism and Protestantism from the West, and Islam from the Middle East and West Asia.
Q: What steps do you anticipate will be taken next in political reforms? For example, might direct elections of local governments be extended upward to the township level?
唐：今后中国在政治改革方面还会有什么步骤？比如说现在的直接选举，是否会从基层推进到乡镇？ 温：目前，我们在68万个村一级实行村民自治和直接选举。这是一个很大的创举，也是对农民的很大锻炼。我们在县、乡和不设区的市实行的是普选人民代表。在省和设区的市以至中央，实行间接选举。为什么这样做？因为中国很大，人口很多，经济不发达，发展又不平衡，在现阶段不可能在高层开展直接选举，条件还不成熟，首先文化素质就不够。
A: You must know quite a lot about Chinese elections. At the moment, we have introduced the practice of self-administration and direct elections in 680,000 villages. This is a great innovation, and it is also very good practice for Chinese farmers. We have also introduced suffrage for the election of people's deputies at the level of townships, counties and urban cities without districts. Indirect elections are held for the leadership of the provinces, autonomous regions, municipalities with districts, as well as the central authorities. Why? This is because China is such a huge country. It has a big population. It is underdeveloped, and economic development is uneven between regions. So conditions are not ripe for direct elections at the higher levels. The first hindrance in my view is the inadequate education level of the population.
Q: Premier Wen, you mentioned uneven development during this period of great economic growth. Are you concerned about a gap growing in economic conditions between the more well off parts of China and the poorer parts of China, such as in the west?
唐：中国现在经济增长势头很猛，比较富裕的地区和比较贫困的地区的差距会不会进一步扩大？
温：我有这样的担心。前不久，美国商务部长埃文斯访华，先去了中国的西北。他给我带来了两张中国西部农村的照片。他了解到，中国的西北农村还很落后。我对他讲，你知道这一点，今天我们谈论的问题都可以解决了。
A: I do have such concerns. Not too long ago, the Commerce Secretary, Mr. Evans, visited China, and he
started his visit going to China’s northwest. He came to see me with two photographs that were taken when he visited the countryside in China's northwest. From his visit, he learned that the countryside in China is still very backward. So I told him with this knowledge, all the problems that he was about to discuss with me could be well solved.
我本人到过全国1800多个县，可以说中国最穷困的地方我都到过。我深知中国的发展是不平衡的。你可以看到，东部地区、一些大城市，有很多高楼大厦。而在一些农村，农民还住在茅草房里，还在用牛耕种。中国还有3000万人没有解决温饱问题。
I've personally been to over 1,800 counties throughout the country. So I'm in a position to say I've seen the worst poverty in China. So I know very well how uneven our development has been. Yes, it is true that in the coastal areas in the East, skyscrapers overwhelm you. However, in large areas of the countryside, people are still living in shabby houses with thatch roofs and still use oxen to till the land. Thirty million people are still below the poverty line.
我们新一届领导通过抗击SARS这场疾病，得到一个重要的启示，就是要注意协调发展。城乡发展不平衡，经济和社会发展不平衡，就如同一个人一条腿长一条腿短一样，一定会跌跤的。一个国家一条腿长一条腿短，也会跌跤的。但是我们必须在发展中解决这些问题，这就是说东部地区继续加快发展，有条件的地方率先基本实现现代化，可以提供更多的财力来支援中部和西部地区。与此同时，我们实施西部大开发战略。最近，我们又提出振兴东北等老工业基地战略。这样实行东西互动，带动中部，使中国能够逐步走向协调发展。但是，请记住，这是一个很长的过程。
So one important inspirational lesson we have learned from the struggle against the SARS epidemic is that we have to emphasize coordinated development. And this is what the new Chinese leadership has learned from the struggle against SARS. Uneven development between the urban and rural areas, and imbalance between economic development and social progress -- this situation can be described with an analogy. It’s like a human being who has one long leg and one short leg. If one leg is longer than the other, this person is bound to stumble and fall. And a country with one leg longer than the other will also stumble and fall. But the problem can only be resolved through continued development. The eastern part of the country will be encouraged to continue with the big momentum of their development. And where conditions permit, they should take the lead in achieving basic modernization. This is because through their development, a lot of financial resources will be made available to support the development of China's center and west. At the same time, we're also
implementing strategy to develop China's western region. And very recently, we decided to implement a
strategy to revitalize the old industrial bases in China’s northeast. So with good interaction between the east and west, we hope to bring along development in the central region of the country. With all these efforts, we hope we can gradually bring about more coordinated development between different regions. But I want to remind you that this could be a very time-consuming process.
Q: Is this also the reason why you are changing the constitution to protect private property rights and giving farmers the right to buy and sell land use rights?
唐：是不是出于同样考虑，你们决定修改宪法，保护私有财产，而且允许农民转让土地使用权？
温：我们确定了一条重要方针，就是坚持以公有制为主体、多种所有制经济共同发展。我们把它概括为两个毫不动摇，就是毫不动摇地发展公有制经济，毫不动摇地发展个体私营等非公有制经济，并将此作为基本经济制度载入了宪法。最近中国共产党十六届三中全会提出了产权制度的概念，明确要求要制定保护私有财产的法律、法规。这样做完全是从中国实际出发，是实事求是的，有利于中国经济的发展，也有利于缓解就业的压力，有利于增强社会公众的创业和创新动力，有利于共同富裕。中国目前个体私营经济的从业人员达到8000万。个体私营经济在国民生产总值中的比重已达到23%。在农村我们实行的家庭承包经营制度，允许农民经营的土地依法有偿转让，这是早已规定了的。
A: We have decided on an important policy and that is public ownership will be the mainstay and multiple forms of ownership will develop side by side. To sum up, we can use two “unswervingly\will unswervingly uphold the public ownership system and develop the public sector, and we will unswervingly
encourage, support and guide the development of the non-public sector, the private-sector included. This basic economic system has been written into our constitution, and in the recently held third plenary session of the 16th Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, the concept of property rights was introduced. It was made very clear at the session that we would formulate legislation protecting private property. Such a move was entirely based on China's actual conditions in the spirit of seeking truth from facts, because this will help
accelerate China’s economic development. It will also help ease the pressure from employment. It will also give greater scope to the creativity and enterprising spirit of the Chinese population and will in the end help us achieve the goal of common prosperity. At the moment, privately run enterprises employ a total of 80 million workers and they contribute to 23 percent of our GDP. In the countryside, we have the household contract system. It has long since been stipulated that land operated by farmers can be transferred in a lawful and compensatory manner.
Q: Earlier you mentioned the financial sector. Do important changes need to be made there to provide more financing for the private sector and business? And does the government need to take steps to deal with the loan problem at some of the big banks?
唐：金融体制方面是否需要做出调整，以使私营企业得到更多的资金支持？如何解决大银行的不良贷款？
温：金融体制改革是我们经济体制改革的重头戏。中国金融体系存在许多问题，最主要的就是银行不良贷款比例较高，存在着很大的金融隐患。主要原因在于体制，必须加快对银行体制的改革。我们的目标是建立现代银行制度，使银行能够成为自主经营、自负盈亏、真正的商业银行。要实行银行公司治理结构的改造，实行股份制，具备条件的，允许上市。你提到一个很重要的问题，就是要加强金融机构对中小企业、特别是民营企业的支持。应该说，在这方面做的是不够的。中小企业特别是民营企业对于吸纳劳动力、解决就业问题可以发挥重要作用。我们要在加强监管、防范风险的同时加大银行对他们的扶持力度。
A: Financial reform is the most crucial part of our overall economic reforms. As is known to all, the financial sector in China has been plagued by many problems. The biggest problem is the fairly high proportion of
nonperforming loans from banks. There exists significant risk. The problem is caused by defects in the system. So we have to accelerate the reform of the banking system. Our aim is to put in place a modern banking system whereby the commercial banks will be commercial banks in the true sense of the word. That means they will be responsible for their own operation decisions and they will be held responsible for their profits and losses. On our part, we will help create conditions to introduce corporate governance to the banks through the
share-holding system. Those that meet the conditions can go public or be listed. You also touched upon an important point, that is to ensure there will be more financing in support of small and medium-sized enterprises and also the privately run enterprises. I have to admit that not enough has been done in this field, even though the small and medium-sized enterprises play a very important role in creating job opportunities and in providing employment. So while we step up regulation and improve our capability to avoid financial risks, we should make sure that the banks would provide more financing and support of these small and medium-sized enterprises.
Q: If I may ask one question about the events of 1989 in Tiananmen. You went to visit the students there during that time. Have you concluded were they counterrevolutionaries or were they patriots?
唐：89年的时候你去了天安门广场，见到了学生们，他们是反革命分子，还是爱国者？
温：上个世纪80年代末90年代初，苏联、东欧发生剧变，在中国也发生了一场政治风波。当时，中国党和政府及时果断地采取措施，维护了社会的稳定，并且下定决心继续推进改革开放。10多年来，中国发展的历史证明，稳定在中国是至关重要的。作为中国的总理，我最关心的是中国的稳定与发展问题，因为中国有13亿人口。
A: In the last century, at the turn of the 1980s and 1990s, drastic changes took place in the Soviet Union and countries of Eastern Europe. In China, a political disturbance occurred. At that time, the party and government of China adopted resolute measures in a timely fashion to safeguard social stability and became more
determined to press ahead with China's reform and opening up. Our development over the past years has proven that stability is of vital importance for China. As Premier of this country, I think the most important issue for me is to ensure stability and development. This is because China has 1.3 billion people.
Q: You've talked about stability being an important concern of yours here. President Bush has in two recent major speeches talked about the importance of freedom as a core American value. Do you see the core values of America and China being different or similar, and how does that affect the future development of Chinese-American relations?
唐：你刚才讲到稳定对中国是至关重要的。而布什总统在他最近两次重要演讲中，都谈到自由的重要性，认为自由是美国的核心价值观。你认为美中两国的价值观是不同，还是相似？对于未来中美关系的发展有什么影响？
温：我想反问一句，在中国改革开放二十五年、经济发生巨大变化的同时，难道你们没有看到中国人民民主和自由发生的变化？比如择业自由，获取信息的自由，旅游的自由。二十五年以前，中国人到外国去，包括到我们自己的香港去，都是不可能的。现在每年有上千万人次到世界各地去。还有我刚才讲的宗教信仰自由问题。我想对先生讲一句我的感受，作为中国的总理，我感觉担子很重，工作难度很大，工作也做不完。13亿，是一个很大的数字，如果你用乘法来算，一个很小的问题，乘以13亿，都会变成一个大问题。如果你用除法的话，一个很大的总量，除以13亿，都会变成一个小的数目。这是许多外国人不容易理解的。
A: Let me ask you a question. In the past 25 years of reform and opening up, enormous changes have taken place in China's economic landscape. Have people from the outside ever seen the changes taking place in
China's democracy and freedom? At the moment, people can choose what kind of jobs they want to have, they can choose what kind of information they seek, they can choose where to visit. Twenty-five years ago, for a Chinese person to visit a foreign country or even to visit Hong Kong, part of our own country, it was very difficult or almost impossible. At the moment, every year, tens of millions of Chinese travelers visit places across the world. And in addition, as I said earlier, we now have freedom of religious belief. Let me share with you how I feel about my duties. As Premier of China, my responsibility is heavy, the job is demanding, and there is endless work to do. 1.3 billion is a very big number. So if we use multiplication, any small problem multiplied by 1.3 billion will end up being a very big problem. For a very big aggregate divided by 1.3 billion, it will come to a very tiny figure. This is something that is quite difficult for foreign visitors to understand and appreciate.
我记得杰斐逊起草的《独立宣言》有这样一段话：人生而平等。由于人生而平等，他们都享有固有的不可剥夺的权利，其中有维护生命和自由的权利以及追求幸福的权利。我刚才讲到，在中国，讲人权首先是生存权和发展权。有些西方朋友感到不可理解。其实，读读杰斐逊1776年起草的《独立宣言》，他也是把生存权摆在了第一位。难道从18世纪的《独立宣言》，到19世纪的南北战争，到20世纪的马丁路德·金事件，不也反映了美国民主和自由发展的过程吗？恕我直言，美国有一些人对中国的了解不如我们对美国了解的多。
I remember that in the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. He put life before anything else. So when we say that for the Chinese people's human rights, the right to life and development is most important, sometimes our friends in the Western countries find this difficult to understand. I think they only need to refer to the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson. In 1776, in that Declaration of Independence, he already put the right to life before every other right. The U.S. has also witnessed the process of development of democracy if you look at the history, from the Declaration of Independence in the 18th century, the Civil War in 19th century, and to the Martin Luther King incident in the 20th century. If I can speak very honestly and in a straightforward manner, I would say the understanding of China by some Americans is not as good as the Chinese people's understanding of the United States.
Q: Speaking of that, you seem to have a very good understanding of the United States. Have you visited the United States before?
唐：从你的谈话中，可以看出你对美国非常了解，你访问过美国吗？
温：应该说我去过美国，但我没有访问过。我是访问南美的时候，路经美国，在纽约、洛杉矶都住过几天。
A: I have not made an official visit to the United States, but I've been to the United States during a stopover on my way to South American countries. I spent a few days in New York and in Los Angeles.
Q: So you know a lot from what you've been reading I imagine about the United States. Is there anything that's made a particular impression on you in your reading about the United States? 唐：你一定读了很多有关美国的书籍，给你留下深刻印象的是什么？
温：我最大的爱好就是读书。读书伴随着我的整个生活。谈到读美国的书，我可以跟你讲一个故事，就是我见韩国总统卢武铉时，他说他的就职演说引用了林肯1861年的一段演说。我回去翻我书架上有关林肯的书，发现在同样的一段话下，我用铅笔画满了红线。林肯说，记忆的神秘琴弦，从每一个战场和每一个爱国者的坟墓，延伸到这些广阔国土上的每一颗跳动着的心和每一个家庭，它一定会被触动，它一旦被我们天性中善良的性灵所触动，必将奏出联邦的大合唱。我想林肯处理南北战争的态度影响了卢武铉，他希望朝鲜半岛南北和解。
A: My biggest hobby actually is reading. I don’t know how to live without books. They're my best companion. Let me share with you a story. Once I had a meeting with the President of the Republic of Korea, Mr. Roh Moo-hyun, and he told me that in his inauguration speech, he quoted President Abraham Lincoln from one of his speeches in 1861. So after the meeting, I went back home and looked for the book about Abraham Lincoln on my bookshelf, and I found that paragraph. In the very same paragraph, I had already used red pencil to underline these lines. He wrote, \grave, to every living heart and hearthstone, all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when touched again, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.\Lincoln's approach to the Civil War had an impact, an influence on President Roh Moo-hyun on how he's going to address the problems between the North and the South. President Roh wants to see reconciliation between the two.
唐：非常感谢你抽出这么多的时间接受我们的采访，非常感谢！
温：最后我还想说几句话。去年江泽民主席访问贵国，今年胡锦涛主席两次会晤布什总统，都明确表达了中方的态度，这就是继续改善和发展同美国的关系。美国是世界上最发达的国家。中国是世界上人口最多的发展中国家。发展中美两国的友好合作，不仅会造福两国人民，而且有利于亚洲和世界的和平与稳定。1972年，两国有远见的领导人打开了中美关系的大门，结束了我们23年的相互隔阂和不交往的历史，开始了两国和平相处的历史。尽管风风雨雨，跌宕起伏，但是两国关系还是前进的。那么这50多年的历史告诉我们什么？起码告诉我们三点，第一，和则两利，斗则俱伤。第二，中美两国有着合作的基础和共同的利益。第三，中美友好合作不仅有利于亚太地区，而且有利于世界的和平与稳定。 I want to make one last remark. Last year, President Jiang Zemin visited the U.S. and this year, President Hu Jintao has met President Bush twice. The Chinese side has explicitly stated its desire to further improve and develop its relations with the U.S. The United States is the most developed country in the world. China is the most populous developing country in the world. To develop friendship and cooperation between these two countries will not only bring benefits to our two peoples but also be conducive to peace and stability in Asia and the world at large. In 1972, farsighted leaders on the two sides opened the door for exchanges between us, and put an end to 23 years of estrangement and no contact. That started the peaceful coexistence between us. Despite the many ups and downs we have experienced, our relationship has moved forward. So what have we learned from the past years of the history of our relationship? I think at least we can draw three conclusions. First, cooperation will bring benefits to both nations, whereas confrontation will hurt both sides. Second, there exists a good basis of cooperation and common interests between China and the United States. Third, friendship and cooperation between China and the U.S. is not only conducive to peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region, it is also conducive to peace and stability throughout the world.